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~ Ebook webbits ~
an unabridged discussion. ~


Pearls of ebook seeking wisdoms in here, readers that will take the time to experiment a little will be able open many virtual doors.
Head ~S~ Jeff's, the "nonchalant wizard", little magic tricks!

The original thread developed on the seeker's messageboard

This is part of [Catching web-rabbits]: (Catching the rabbit's ears & pulling files out of the hat ), itself part of the [Essays]. Advanced Web searching tricks, itself part of http://www.searchlores.org

ebooks/bookwarez (16/09/03 09:05:02)
    Who was it again who was an expert on ebooks, etc? I've a few titles in mind. Could you give me a quickie synopsis of helpful places?

    Hell, I can name the titles if you want.
Stiletto

http://www.searchlores.org/targets.htm#text (n/t) (16/09/03 10:30:55)

Lurkerone
ja - give some title and let's have a good seek :) (n/t) (16/09/03 15:52:58)

ZozzoZ
Re: ja - give some title and let's have a good seek :) (16/09/03 16:50:13)
    Happy to help Stiletto, how about some Authors & Titles?
childzplay
If you could help me find these articles for class it would help much. (16/09/03 19:05:33)
    Hilary Putnam, "Brains and Behavior"
    U.T. Place, "Is Consciousness a Brain Process?"
    J.J.C. Smart, "SensATIONS AND bRAIN pROCESSES"
    Herbert Feigl, "The 'Mental" and the 'Physical'"
    Hilary Putnam, "The Nature of mental States"
    D.M. Armstrong, "The Causal Theory of the Mind"
    C.D. Broad, "Mechanism and its Alternatives"
    Donald Davidson, "Mental Events"
    Frank, Jackson, "FIndin the Mind in the Natural World"
    John Searle, "Can computers think?"

    Trying a superficial search at google, fast, etc. does not yield
    much valuable results.

    Thanks for any help(perhaps I can give someone who helps me out the address
    to a free BGP shell.

    Cya!
99heeseb@utsc.utoronto.ca ~ +jock
If you could help me find these articles for class it would help much. (16/09/03 19:06:03)
    Hilary Putnam, "Brains and Behavior"
    U.T. Place, "Is Consciousness a Brain Process?"
    J.J.C. Smart, "SensATIONS AND bRAIN pROCESSES"
    Herbert Feigl, "The 'Mental" and the 'Physical'"
    Hilary Putnam, "The Nature of mental States"
    D.M. Armstrong, "The Causal Theory of the Mind"
    C.D. Broad, "Mechanism and its Alternatives"
    Donald Davidson, "Mental Events"
    Frank, Jackson, "FIndin the Mind in the Natural World"
    John Searle, "Can computers think?"

    Trying a superficial search at google, fast, etc. does not yield
    much valuable results.

    Thanks for any help(perhaps I can give someone who helps me out the address
    to a free BGP shell.

    Cya!
+jock
Re: If you could help me find these articles for class it would help much. (16/09/03 19:48:02)
    i suppose you realize that you can find ALL of your list, in the book:
    Philosophy of Mind: Classical and Contemporary Readings
    ?

jeff
Re: Re: If you could help me find these articles for class it would help much. (16/09/03 20:59:05)
    Yes, but as a student it costs me a fortune.
+jock
Re: Re: Re: then if i may ask (16/09/03 21:37:34)
    ... are you willing to invest a little time to dig deeper than superficial?

    what i mean is, i am not going to go find you all of these articles--- but i am willing to show you how to find a few, so that you can in the future help yourself, and others, when they need help, and in so doing maybe find some old or new tricks. Like the old days of fixing broken programs ... what have you done so far? and where are you stuck at in your thought process?

    ?

    its up to you and your time investment.

    i think it terrible the cost of education these days ... like being charged 500 dollars for an asprin in the hospital... pisses me off.

    if you will be willing to work side by side, i, or, we, will walk you thru a couple and we will see if the articles, individualy, are there... or maybe not :)

    what say you?

    i can tell you right now the very first one i searched, and the very first link in google, produced one of your articles.




jeff
Re: Re: Re: Re: then if i may ask (17/09/03 00:25:38)
    Jeff, I'm game. I may know the tricks, I may not, but I'm willing to try.
    Where do you want to start? This could probably help many people.
childzplay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: then if i may ask (17/09/03 00:35:19)
    Making the Nation Safer
    The Role of Science and Technology in Countering Terrorism
    http://www.nap.edu/html/stct/
    also nice to look through
    http://www.nap.edu/html/




childzplay
This is my thinking... (17/09/03 00:37:35)
    Well... I've been a constant lurker of searchlores, but have not too often required using deep search techniques to find what I want.

    So far I've tried the articles names in quotations at google, the
    "index +of" trick and some light combing. The latter having been the most
    successful. I have yet to try regional searching and some of the phplab scrolls, although they don't seem to be working.

    I was wondering if there were any specific techniques for searching articles?
    In my mind, what is popular today is the database techniques. Articles(such as these)are often stored in databases which offer them for a fee to customers.
    As an example I remeber Northern light of old.

    Hence I believe I will have an excellent success rate, by finding which journals or magazines will have the articles in them.

    In my searching style I like to automate the process as much as possible. So if I could write a bot, and narrow down the results as best as possible I believe to learn the most.

    Hence, I would really appreciate help in building a search string that could be used specifically for finding articles.

    Cheers,

+jock
Re: This is my thinking... on 2 hours sleep (17/09/03 17:40:29)
    gottah leave in an hour too :(

    from reading your post it doesn't seem you need alot of help. You have good instincts.

    i think i jumped the gun again yesterday (not knowing your subject or book CONTENTS) it looks like what i found were abstracts (which are GREAT for Frodo searching [text searching] http://www.searchlores.org/targets.htm#text :) btw f+ webbits link gives rabbit 404-- it needs to say rabbits.htm)

    as i said; i thought after searching for a few of your articles that i was seeing them come up in search all together, or very close together --- they felt familiar having just seen them.
    so i pasted several of the Titles in at a time which gives the quester an idea sometimes of where the requester is coming from, or has been, or, needs to go :)

    looking at googles first link we see that a david chalmers indicates that he has put together an anthology of articles (all of your articles) into a book called "Philosophy of Mind: Classical and Contemporary Readings, published by Oxford University Press.

    in this case it seems to be a well known layed out outline for many philosophy classes reading/s.

    seeing that all articles are in one book (rather than searching 10 articles) looked like the way to go...

    when pasting in the complete title usualy gona get hundreds of book/stores...
    I usualy do NOT -eliminate book sellers right away, because sometimes they have excerpts of TEXT of the book being sought... text can of course be the direct way to find those peoples who have put the book online and thus filter out all of the useless/camoflaged/ Title returns.

    some keywords to keep in mind while looking for author-title etc could be
    abstract/s citation/s excerpt/s review/s ... because these may give you a paragraph of book contents; or author quotes.

    anyone with the book probly is not going to have named it Philosophy of Mind: Classical and Contemporary Readings.txt, but i do search in layers anyway... txt, pdf, rtf, doc, ascii, etc........... problem is what did the person name that damed long ass file Title...

    when easy searching keeps getting harder and harder thats when i then pretty much know its time to goto Librarys, university, journals, databases , etc...

    my readings tell me the chalmers book Is in universitys, in fact its probably at your local public library, and the articles themselves are in (seem to be said to be)in journals... this is not to say they aren't on the free net; haven't had time to exhaust possibilities though.

    i am a terrible essay writer; terrible teacher (and do not profess to be one either and an even worse student!!:) so try to go beyond my writting and figure out what it is i try to say that i never quite get said corrctly, cause what i said is probably not what you heard :) :)

    anyway i only have a couple of minutes and gottah goto town

    :( try different keywords like:
    ................ searle "chapter" ... to see what i mean when i jumped the gun.

    all info is valuable though even when you up the creek with the wrong paddle --- you soon see if you follow the searle "chapter" path that searle wrote:

    The Chinese Room
    John Searle, ?Minds, Brains and Programs?, The Behavioural and Brain Sciences volume 3 (1980), pp. 417-24;
    also Minds, Brains and Science (Penguin, 1984), chapter 2 ?Can Computers Think??

    ...so now we know that chalmers book has it; and that chapter 2 "can computers think?" was a RE-write in a book called "Minds, Brains and Science" ... now we have another lead ... and i have to leave and haven't helped at all :)







jeff
Re: Re: before i forget (17/09/03 17:43:06)
    go take a look at Chalmers site ...... its loaded with info - white papers... links etc...
jeff
Re: Re: This is my thinking... insomniac (18/09/03 04:30:12)
    Excellent way to put it. Especially this:

    >I usualy do NOT -eliminate book sellers right away, because sometimes they have
    >excerpts of TEXT of the book being sought... text can of course be the direct
    >way to find those peoples who have put the book online and thus filter out all
    >of the useless/camoflaged/ Title returns.

    Use it on Searle and you get the original paper, the 1980 one - see two examples below:

    http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/84/bbs00000484-00/bbs.searle2.html
    http://home.hanmir.com/~prolog/ai/mind.html

    Of course, using this approach for each and every one of the articles is time-consuming. The optimal solution is to try to find the book.

    Another approach is to use a library card ID to enter one of the many libraries that allow online access. All you need is a number (14-digit or bar code of whatever). You can either use your own, or find one, or, if you're not in the US but have a (student) friend there, just ask him or her to give you a number.

    Universities also have free access to databases of science and research articles, but this only works through their proxy.


vvf
Re: Re: Re: This is my thinking... insomniac (18/09/03 08:59:13)
    Hi vvf, u said that:

    > Another approach is to use a library card ID to enter one of the many libraries that allow online
    > access. All you need is a number (14-digit or bar code of whatever). You can either use your own,
    > or find one, or, if you're not in the US but have a (student) friend there, just ask him or her to give
    > you a number.

    Did you meen that any allowable 14-digit bar code codabar number with the right beginning works?

William of Baskerville
no. just the right one :) (n/t) (18/09/03 18:11:54)

vvf
Searle has his own articles online... (18/09/03 21:40:53)
    Chalmers keeps this page called "People with online papers in philosophy":
    http://www.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/people.html

    and there you find Searle, with 2 links:

    http://philosophy.berkeley.edu/searle/html/articles.html
    and
    http://hiwaay.net/~wfgodot/cogsci/SearleCentral.html

    That's really all you ever want to read by him on the subject matter :)



vvf
Re: Re: Re: This is my thinking... insomniac (19/09/03 20:01:29)
    > Universities also have free access to databases of
    > science and research articles, but this only works
    > through their proxy.

    It may help to have a shell account on a university workstation.
    Some publishers handle access to their PDF publications by a
    simple IP block check. If you can access a university computer
    from your home (via ssh), you can retrieve the files using wget.


daniel
Don't forget things like Bevaviour vs. Behavior (n/t) (17/09/03 17:54:50)

Mordred
Re: Don't forget things like Bevaviour vs. Behavior (18/09/03 21:16:32)

    :)

    e-yea-yah ... spelling can be an obscurity to that first or last click of hope :)

    often if we are looking for a book, we have no idea what the text is inside; so was trying to lay a tiny foundation to go further than "Title" in order to find text... finding will depend on your keywords of course.

    if you search:
    Hilary Putnam, "Brains and Behavior" ...55 returns

    you will get an entirely different return than:

    Putnam "Brains and Behavior" ... 163 returns

    I generaly think less is better because one is specific, while the other allows stemming, if you see what i mean (for lack of a better vocabulary )

    in other words Putnam links to brains, while filtering drugs and joe blow out, meanwhile catching Hilary putnam, and H. Putnam, and Putnam --- whereas Hilary Putnam only cathes Hilary. (note i am not sure of the single word returns in pdf's because most of time i can not open them because my system crashs)

    it's like asking for philosphy and never seeing philosophiae or bevaviour :)

    using the word "chapter"/author-name/ might be one way to stumble upon online text, as well as other minor examples given.

    we discovered that your articles are in chalmers book in whole;
    we know that one article "can computers think?" is in chapter 2 of searles "minds brains and science"
    (note Not,i think, in Minds brains and Programs)
    see: http://www.cl-ki.uni-osnabrueck.de/~pbosch/FCS/Lentzen.pdf
    (which opened YEA!)... now if i could only get hippias search to work :(

    so we can also now look for those two books, as mentioned.
    But if people can compile elliot, and chalmers can compile many authors, then it seems that others are entitled.

    so other than universities, journals, seperate articles, etc,,... which can come later, or will come later if not found ... how to keep getting deeper?

    what else might one visualize on a page? How about "table of contents"?

    i'm having trouble finding chalmers book online (online is a good keyword too -- as you'll note your Smart "sensations" is there with the proper jstor key --- as well as probably others---but thats for like part IX; still workin on text and titles :)

    "Table of contents" searle "can computers think?" ... well now heres just another ole book that has not only searl but theres ole U T Place too in the table of contents.......
    PHILOSOPHICAL ENTREES: Classic and Contemporary Readings in Philosophy
    Author: Dale Jacquette, Pennsylvania State University--University Park

    anyway when it ain't getting easy you gottah give her up, or go deeper is i guess what i am tryin to say ... and there's different shovels for different depths :)

    your universities and journals are gona be your best bet for sure but then you have some decissions to make when your stringing together your proxies :)

    authorities are another route as chalmers page displays hundreds of online papers ... just not the ones you want at this time ... but another time!!

    lots of keywords to use if your flowcharting, i can't begin to list those that work well (sometimes) ... online, papers, text, etext, e-text,.txt, full text, electronic books, ebooks, e-books, pdf, doc. rtf, etc etc etc

    visualizing what inside book looks like: Contents, table of contents, chapter, etc etc etc

    actual text is best :) ... how to find some and use it when Title gives you useless spam... etc etc etc

    filename guessing

    guessing is always fun :)
    i have no idea what is 5.7 mgs or 71mgs in that chalmers.pdf and don't have 5 hours to waste downloading to check it out (though the name of index and the contents don't give me much of a clue as to content --- like say if one of the directories was /philosophy/ i'd have a better zenful feeling)

    specific search engines: -- search philosophy -- gives nice search engines
    etc etc

    only looked for searle and putnam so far but am learning alot as i go ... like how to waste an hour in databases typing in putman before realizing for an hour of grrrrrrrrrrr, No Returns found, that it was suppossed to be putNam. heh

    Bevavior vs. Behavior :)

    dam is it already beertime?


















jeff
Re: Re: Don't forget things like Bevaviour vs. Behavior (19/09/03 11:50:32)
    if you search:
    Hilary Putnam, "Brains and Behavior" ...55 returns

    you will get an entirely different return than:

    Putnam "Brains and Behavior" ... 163 returns

    I generaly think less is better because one is specific, while the other allows stemming, if you see what i mean (for lack of a better vocabulary )

    question for you searchers.. if i get about 50-150 results, i usually
    tack "&num=100&filter=0" to the end of the url, to get as most results
    in one screen as possible, then quickly scan/evaluate every result from
    in google, and actually clicking on about 15% of the results.

    especially when you do this after 3 or 5 other searches [so you get
    a bit comfortable within the topic your researching], you can quickly
    with a short glance decide whether you've found another book-site that
    is trying to sell you the book, or some more obscure site that might
    actually present real text for download.

    "eh ritz, what was your question?" (..) oh right, the question is of
    course if you use similar tactics, what you think of this method, etc.

    by the way, you would be surprised at the very low rate of success
    this approach has. :) perhaps i'm just a lousy seeker, or perhaps
    there is something generally wrong with this method.
    my reasoning for using it is that the keywords i used to get the
    50-150 results should most definitely appear in the text i'm looking
    for, so if i just take a look at all of them (takes me 5-10 minutes)
    i should find it.

    ideas?

    bye,

    - ritz


ritz
Re: Re: Don't forget things like Bevaviour vs. Behavior (19/09/03 13:11:50)
    Is it ever NOT beertime?
Deadlink
Re: Re: Re: is it ever Not beertime? (20/09/03 19:59:56)
    yeah; when its margarita time :)

    well looks like very little interest in this side by side

    will give it another day or so.

    things to remember when rabbits pop out of hole:
    1.if it is a javascript pop-up --- then turn OFF your js
    or
    2.if a pop-up pops in js before page loads and you can't get to page source
    then use the view-source trick.

    example:
    Introduction to Philosophy: Main Problems
    ... God. Jan 9. Pascal, ?Of the Necessity of the Wager? (online, not in text).
    Jan 14. ... Mar 20. JJC Smart ?Sensations and Brain Processes?. Mar 25. ...
    subcortex.com/introphil/ - 38k - Cached - Similar pages

    pop-up prevents page loading and requests a pass.......
    now try this way:
    view-source:http://subcortex.com/introphil/

    and inside source you see the pass ---------

    my notes are bad; but if i recall back 2 days ago one of your articles was protected this way..........

    your posts do not sound like you are a newby seeker - so these are notes more for beginning beertimers :)



    we already know that 2 of your articles
    U.T. Place, "Is Consciousness a Brain Process?"
    J.J.C. Smart, "SensATIONS AND bRAIN pROCESSES"
    are available thru j s t o r



    lets pick another of your articles,

    Putnam, "The Nature of mental States"

    what type of pop-up login is it?
    watch the pop-up login box...
    what clues are in the box?

    which university?
    what kind of reader?
    "cognitive science"

    if, the pass is on the web how would you config google to find it?
    ...reader "cognitive science" ________ (fill in blank:)

    Are you in now?

    still say itd be nice to find chalmers compiled

    baileys irish creme time...


jeff
slightly OT --- abstracts for technical documents (18/09/03 14:10:31)
    http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs
ZozzoZ

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